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June 24, 2009

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Charles Johnson

This is magnificent, Terry, and deserves to be read by every Baptist-- every Christian!-- in America.

May God forgive us.

And, may God help us to do what your wise father counseled: keep loving the people.

Charlie

Steve

Terry, there is a very dishonest twist to your story...and omission is as deceitful as any outright lie. I don't want to sound attacking, however, this type of deception needs to be called out. You are trying to say that the name "Broadway" is what led the SBC to take this action, and the ONLY possible reason. Maybe what the SBC did was wrong, maybe not, I don't have all the facts to judge. But I do know that Broadway has a long history of some leaders that may have done and said things which upset the SBC board. I know a WHOLE lot of kind, loving, outreaching Baptist churches that are not in any danger of being randomly called out and kicked out of the SBC for ridiculous reasons.

I believe you owe all of the readers and the SBC an explanation and an apology.

Terry Austin

Steve,
Take a breath! My reference to the name "Broadway" being the source of the problem was a feeble attempt at humor. Read the article again and insert the word "laugh" at the end of the paragraph that talks about show tunes.

barry

At this point, it's an honor to Broadway. My question, though, is how the church lasted this long in the SBC? Knowing what the members of Broadway knew about the Southern Baptist Convention, about how their money was being spent, about the endless headlines being garnered, how is it that the church continued its association with that convention in good conscience, and didn't break things off sometime in the late 80s when other churches of its ilk did just that?

My prayer is that the members of Broadway will find other Christians to be more cooperative.

Gary

Terry:

I feel your pain. And you can share this with others in pain if you want.

I grew up Southern Baptist. My great uncle was a top official of the Southern Baptist Conference. We thought he walked on water. Mom wanted me to be a Baptist preacher. So I too got those perfect attendance pins on Sunday morning and never missed a RA meeting.

But I became an Episcopalian after marrying one. Yes, culture shock! Yet I eventually adjusted, even becoming a church leader. I was amazed when even my dear old mother exclaimed: "Episcopalians read more Bible in church than Baptists do!" That's true so when we moved, I joined my wife in another Episcopal Church. And I eventually learned the pastor was gay. But he was most discreet, which is why even I didn't know for quite a while. He was a great pastor and became a good friend. I was on Wall Street and we both understood the Bible says it was my sin of greed--at least according to Biblical standards if not Wall Street's--not his sin that is the root of all evil that will keep us from entering that old eye of the needle. I even accepted when he asked me to be the church's senior warden, which is like the pastor's best friend.

When he left for a larger church, I headed the search committee. Sensing some members were still uncomfortable with his particular spiritual challenge, we made finding a "family-oriented" pastor our top priority. We eventually took the recommendation of the diocese and hired a senior pastor with a family. It was only after he arrived that we discovered both he and his wife had been divorced. Apparently that wasn't serious enough to bother mentioning to the search committee. The children didn't even come with them. But one of our first Bible studies was about divorce, which he completely avoided. When I asked about it as my sister was going through one and I needed guidance to deal with my old fundamentalist feelings on the subject, the pastor and his wife walked out. When I apologized, she suggested "the church needs to do away with the Bible and start all over." Needless to say, within a few months they had destroyed what the gay priest had taken years to build.

I'm now a Lutheran, sort of an Episcopalian who drinks beer rather than wine. I still tell the old joke that if you take a Baptist fishing, take two or he'll drink all your beer. And I work with Mennonites, who consider a free beer table to be the primary moral dilemma. Apparently, that old taboo from my fundamentalist days has evolved. But this summer, we beer-loving Lutherans will fight the war over ordaining gays. Despite having been the lay leader of my Lutheran church, I have no idea what our policies about ordaining priests who are divorced, drunken, greedy or prideful say. Therefore, like most Christians, most Lutherans have forgotten that Jesus spoke directly about those sins while referring to homosexuality only indirectly, if at all. Perhaps that's why more and more of my friends are saying they used to be Christians but are now followers of Jesus as they find the institutional church far more confusing than Jesus' command to love one another, even enemies.

Steve

Terry,

I understand you may have been attempting humor, but unfortunately, it only encourages the lambasting of some good conservative Christian people. That is what is destroying the church, and my guess is, God doesn't find that funny. I have a similar history as yours, coming from an ancestry of Southern Baptist ministers. Like I said, I can't say whether what the SBC did to Broadway was justified or not, because I only know what I read. What I do know is that liberalism is creeping into a denomination that many struggled a lifetime to support. Everyone now wants a church that accepts them as they are, and that means accepting their sinful lifestyle. As far as I know, Jesus didn't just go around preaching acceptance, He taught on repentance. I believe you would be hard pressed to find a single sermon in any of the more "open" churches today where you wold hear the word repent. Jesus first sermon was just that..."repent." John the Baptist main cry was "repent." But we want to be "accepting" because that is what Jesus would do?

I apologize for coming on too strong, but it's time somebody stood their ground and decided it s time for the church to quit being a social club trying to make people feel good, and call out for the kind of accountability Jesus spoke of. It is time to go back to our roots, back to the truths that so many pastors have diluted for fear of losing members, or losing income. If that means half the church walks out, then far better to speak the truth with a few, than to water it down with a lot.

Geoff Bray

So, Steve, if you want us to call out for the kind of accountability that Jesus spoke of then let's start where he did. Let's talk about greed, loving your neighbor, giving to the poor instead of buying nice houses, cars and investing in your 401K.

Let's just be a little consistent. Let's not hard-line homosexuality and wink at all the others. In all my reading of scripture the only people Jesus was "unkind" to was the religious leaders. That certainly doesn't mean you can't call sin out as Jesus did. It does mean we deal with our hypocrisy.

It's a really interesting question why homosexuality is the "big" sin these days. From my experience the church has few homosexuals (because of our often hateful attitude) but we have INSANE amounts of promiscuity / fornication, greedy rascals, hate mongers, etc.

Terry, I'm so sorry. I'm concerned about where the SBC is going, as you know. I've been concerned for years after the fundamentalist takeover of Southwestern Seminary (among other things) and the hateful attitudes of a number of those fundamentalists (say what you will about what you've read somewhere ... I was there. Only God can judge the heart ... be hard not to be convinced though based on actions and words.)

Be praying for y'all.

JD

"Let's just be a little consistent. Let's not hard-line homosexuality and wink at all the others." I could not agree more! Will SBC leaders call for the resignations of our promiscuous Republican leaders? Will we throw out their churches now? I don't believe we should condone homosexuality, but I sure don't read it as being worse that adultery, porn, or other sexual sins.

Hopefully BBC will still find a place of fellowship among Texas Baptists.

Wickle

I'm glad that the SBC took care of that. I mean, there wasn't quite enough legalism in American churches ... I'm glad they helped clean that up.

You're right ... there are many kinds of sins, and homosexuality is no worse than anything else. I know of people who are angry, who gossip, and even some who have lied. I happen to know people who have looked lustfully at women other than their wives.

I'm sorry for what happened. On the other hand, it gives an opportunity for us to look at what we're really saying and doing.

David Fortenbury

2000 years later and there is still the problem of the beam versus the speck in the eye. David

Scare

Terry, I think part of the problem with church leaders today is that side step the sins issue. Yes, we must accept homosexuals with love and kindness, which your church does, but do you tell them that homosexuality is a sin, and that like adultery, porn, stealing etc, it is a sin that must be admitted to God that it is in deed a sin and ask God for forgiveness. It is good that the Southern Baptists have taken a stand, and like the Catholic church where you know where they stand and know you are worshiping in a place that practices what they preach. I by the way am not a Baptist or a Catholic, I am a Lutheran and I pray that the leaders of my church make the right decision of gay pastors when they meet in August..God Bless the great work that you do Terry

Terry Austin

Scare,
I certainly agree with you that homosexuality is a sin and all those living in sin should be called to repent. I cannot speak for everyone in our church, but I am confident this statement would find overwhelming support from our congregation. However, that response to the Southern Baptist investigators was not sufficient. I suggest you read our Interim Pastor's words for an explanation of how the church responded http://cfj-connectivity.blogspot.com/

I appears that we were singled out because we were not angry enough when we spoke to sinners. The example of Jesus responding to the woman caught in adultery holds the key for resolving this issue. However, I am not confident that I know exactly how to make application.

Scare

Terry; thanks for your response and forwarding me the article. It appears that Broadway has indeed been singled out. It also appears that other churches in the Southern Baptist realm will now get the message loud and clear that there is no doubt what the stance is.

As far as how you are to make application: Do what you always have done and pray, pray, pray about it. You have been chosen by God to fulfill his wishes here on earth, and you have always done a good job for Him, this situation will be no different for you. In fact, I will pray for you right now, that God gives you the wisdom to handle this.

Keep up your good work....

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