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October 11, 2009

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Comments

JD

I like reversing that old saying...love the sinner, hate the sin! That's the order Jesus followed.

Geoffrey Bray

Yeah, once I figure out how to love the sinner then I'll be better able to hate the sin. Right now I'm still focused on loving the sinner because I don't do so well with that.

Steve

Just curious more than anything else. If speaking on divorce, how can one ignore Jesus repeated words "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery."
We take other scriptures and hang entire theology on single words, yet this statement coming straight from Jesus is rarely even mentioned in church today. Have we just gotten so politically correct that we now ignore those parts of scripture we don't like to hear?

David Lane

I think I agree with most if not all of what you said here. However, I have a question that I am trying to fit in. In your example of the drunken people, are we to love them to the point of protecting them from the consequences of their sins. Could not a consequence of continued drunkenness be that a mother loses custody of her children? Is there a point where loving the sinner and providing for her becomes 'enabling' her in the sin? (I don't like this word as it is a pop psychology type word but I could think of no other)

A biblical example is the rich young ruler. Jesus presented him with what he had to do - give up his materialism. The man walked away loving his stuff more than Jesus. In other words, he walked away in sin. I know Jesus loved him and hated his sin but did he chase him down and help him in his sin?

How does it look to love the sinner and hate the sin? I am working on this and on my sin.

Just thinking out loud.

Steve

You raised a good point David, and this is where we have a whole lot of confused "Christians" today. A friend of mine who has been an EMT supervisor for many years told me once that giving drunks, druggies, and panhandlers money was the absolute worse thing you could do for them. Jesus never initiated any aid or welfare agency that I can find in scripture, and there were many, many poor and hungry everywhere he went. It creates a real dilemna, which many people cannot reconcile, especially in light of some of the frivilous mission trips of today. Does it make sense to have 30 people take a "European vacation" mission trip for $3000 each so that they can deliver $800 worth of bibles and paint a few walls? Ridiculous.

Terry Austin

You guys seem to be having a problem deciding what "hating the sin" looks like. Does it mean leaving them to suffer consequences for the action? Does it mean ignoring the person to let them suffer alone? Does it mean "enabling" them to continue? Does it mean joining a cause, sending out emails, hurling accusations?

Rather than focusing on hating the sin, perhaps we should zero in on what it means to love the sinner. Try this approach - how would I treat my spouse (or some other loved one) if they had a drinking (or some other sin) problem? You might eventually leave them to suffer consequences, but not until you had tried everything else first.

My point in writing the article is that if we would concentrate on loving the sinner, our hatred of the sin would be much more effective. As an added benefit, the sinner would listen to us better if we love them first.

David Lane

I have a problem with the whole thing, I guess. What does hating the sin look like and what does loving the sinner look like?

Question: Does God love us out of the consequences of our actions? This has to be an individual thing. If I am trying to get out of my sin and seeking help is that not a different position than if I am wallowing in my sin and do not want out of it - like the drunkard mother in your example?

Terry Austin

David, once you love the sinner you will know what it means to hate the sin. If we would spend more time trying to love the sinner, our hatred for the sin would be appropriate and more productive.

For example, the drunk mother. What if she is someone that you love, i.e. family member, close friend. You do not go around saying, "All drunks are destined for hell!" Instead, you do whatever you can to help her overcome this sin. You spend your energy helping the sinner (drunk in this case) and you hate alcohol and do whatever you can to keep others from getting caught in it's clutches.

Steve

I don't know that it is either possible or practical to hate inanimate objects. That can lead to lack of accountability. It is not alcohol in itself that is evil, nor the hamburger that adds fat, nor the gun that murders. Sin requires a choice. I suppose you can hate that choice, but that choice is integratively tied to the person who makes it. So the man that murders just for pure evil pleasure, greed or from hate cannot be totally separated from his actions. If that were possible, there would be no judgement for anyone because God would automatically absolve them of their sins without Christ's intervention. Christians cannot love evil. And when evil and sin co-exist in a non-Christian, Christians can only pray for God to have mercy on them and to love them enough to try to make sure they understand the eternal consequences of the choices they make.

Terry Austin

Steve, I think you have said it very well!

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